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	<title>Comments on: Fixed Price Contracts for Agile Teams</title>
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		<title>By: Murray Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.AgilistaPM.com/fixed-price-contracts/comment-page-1/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Sep 2010 07:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I engaged a large indian software developer for a major telco on an agile contract. I did it by writing the contracts as fixed time and dollars with a target scope that could vary through the project at the start of each iteration. I also met with them every day to review progress and issues and make decisions. The result was much faster, lower risk, better quality and better value than previous contracts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I engaged a large indian software developer for a major telco on an agile contract. I did it by writing the contracts as fixed time and dollars with a target scope that could vary through the project at the start of each iteration. I also met with them every day to review progress and issues and make decisions. The result was much faster, lower risk, better quality and better value than previous contracts.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna Reed</title>
		<link>http://www.AgilistaPM.com/fixed-price-contracts/comment-page-1/#comment-420</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.AgilistaPM.com/?p=4055#comment-420</guid>
		<description>HI Tatheer - You are soooooooo right.  Experience teaches you what is needed so your customers are happy.   And this changes over time as well.  Having a general contract is good for the relationship, then having a separate SOW for specific work done, seems to work best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI Tatheer &#8211; You are soooooooo right.  Experience teaches you what is needed so your customers are happy.   And this changes over time as well.  Having a general contract is good for the relationship, then having a separate SOW for specific work done, seems to work best.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna Reed</title>
		<link>http://www.AgilistaPM.com/fixed-price-contracts/comment-page-1/#comment-419</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.AgilistaPM.com/?p=4055#comment-419</guid>
		<description>Hi Donal - 

Absolutely, I have found that you need to agree on some kind of scope and schedule with a contract.....I&#039;ve written many of them over the years - and I have found that the contract or statement of work more often (SOW) will go into this info to some level.  Not super detail by any means though.   It lists out major features/requirements - that you hope are in priority order (and if not, you prioritized asap before starting work so you work on highest business value first!).

I have also found that the details for scope/requirements are typically worked out and negotiated during the life of the project....and 95% of the time scope changes along the way and we adjust.   Adjust, meands that depending on the customer/vendor worked with - you might need to negotiate additional costs as the scope details are found out or change.    This forces hard decisions to be made to answer the big question of &quot;is this really important?&quot;.     So WHO EATS THE COST?.....the answer is typically negotiable....and many times it becomes a shared cost between customer and dev team.

Now this comes from my experience with large Fortune 100 companies typically.......and I can imagine that the smaller the company - the more they will demand detailed SOW/contract.     What has your experience been?

--Donna</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Donal &#8211; </p>
<p>Absolutely, I have found that you need to agree on some kind of scope and schedule with a contract&#8230;..I&#8217;ve written many of them over the years &#8211; and I have found that the contract or statement of work more often (SOW) will go into this info to some level.  Not super detail by any means though.   It lists out major features/requirements &#8211; that you hope are in priority order (and if not, you prioritized asap before starting work so you work on highest business value first!).</p>
<p>I have also found that the details for scope/requirements are typically worked out and negotiated during the life of the project&#8230;.and 95% of the time scope changes along the way and we adjust.   Adjust, meands that depending on the customer/vendor worked with &#8211; you might need to negotiate additional costs as the scope details are found out or change.    This forces hard decisions to be made to answer the big question of &#8220;is this really important?&#8221;.     So WHO EATS THE COST?&#8230;..the answer is typically negotiable&#8230;.and many times it becomes a shared cost between customer and dev team.</p>
<p>Now this comes from my experience with large Fortune 100 companies typically&#8230;&#8230;.and I can imagine that the smaller the company &#8211; the more they will demand detailed SOW/contract.     What has your experience been?</p>
<p>&#8211;Donna</p>
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		<title>By: Donal Walsh</title>
		<link>http://www.AgilistaPM.com/fixed-price-contracts/comment-page-1/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>Donal Walsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think the cost and time implications of change, when it does happen, need to be explored further. The article suggests segmenting the contract initially to gauge progress of the project against Agile principles. Most customers will not engage in any budget spend for any project without agreement on final costs, time lines and scope. I do agree that scope is almost never perfect and can set an illusion of control. However with the right quality of people on customer and project side the detailing of scope can be an extremely useful exercise.

In many cases whilst good design principles can reduce the impact of change we must appreciate that changes may result in (a) major rework to the code and architecture already completed (b) a reworking of user stories in question plus subsequent/previous stories as often there is connective tissue across stories. This story re-modeling exercise in itself can present a substantial cost in larger projects even if they are broken into smaller iterations. Changes need to be evaluated from a business and technical perspective, an estimated cost of change and schedule quoted to the customer who may decide the changes do not merit the extra spend or impact on schedule. This is especially the case in distributed software development teams I think, where the benefits of customer co-location are not possible.

Who eats this cost? It is usually the software provider so be careful to include the cost and time implications of these exercises in your budget or alternatively make it clear these exploratory changes must be paid for on a time and materials basis by the customer. That is, if they cannot be handled within the agreed project estimates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the cost and time implications of change, when it does happen, need to be explored further. The article suggests segmenting the contract initially to gauge progress of the project against Agile principles. Most customers will not engage in any budget spend for any project without agreement on final costs, time lines and scope. I do agree that scope is almost never perfect and can set an illusion of control. However with the right quality of people on customer and project side the detailing of scope can be an extremely useful exercise.</p>
<p>In many cases whilst good design principles can reduce the impact of change we must appreciate that changes may result in (a) major rework to the code and architecture already completed (b) a reworking of user stories in question plus subsequent/previous stories as often there is connective tissue across stories. This story re-modeling exercise in itself can present a substantial cost in larger projects even if they are broken into smaller iterations. Changes need to be evaluated from a business and technical perspective, an estimated cost of change and schedule quoted to the customer who may decide the changes do not merit the extra spend or impact on schedule. This is especially the case in distributed software development teams I think, where the benefits of customer co-location are not possible.</p>
<p>Who eats this cost? It is usually the software provider so be careful to include the cost and time implications of these exercises in your budget or alternatively make it clear these exploratory changes must be paid for on a time and materials basis by the customer. That is, if they cannot be handled within the agreed project estimates.</p>
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		<title>By: Huet Landry</title>
		<link>http://www.AgilistaPM.com/fixed-price-contracts/comment-page-1/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>Huet Landry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.AgilistaPM.com/?p=4055#comment-407</guid>
		<description>Another key problem is when the organization writing the contract has no control over the participation of the actual product owners in the process.  Agile proejcts requirenore regular, intense participation than most product owners are familiar with.  Even one meeting per week is more than many are willing to support.  Even if the contract specifies PO committment as a condition, there is nothing that can be done to ensure success if the PO is not a party to the contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another key problem is when the organization writing the contract has no control over the participation of the actual product owners in the process.  Agile proejcts requirenore regular, intense participation than most product owners are familiar with.  Even one meeting per week is more than many are willing to support.  Even if the contract specifies PO committment as a condition, there is nothing that can be done to ensure success if the PO is not a party to the contract.</p>
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		<title>By: paul naybour</title>
		<link>http://www.AgilistaPM.com/fixed-price-contracts/comment-page-1/#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator>paul naybour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 07:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.AgilistaPM.com/?p=4055#comment-404</guid>
		<description>What a fantastic summery of Agile. I am just about to engage someone to develop a new web server / mobile app. I am use to following a traditional approach but now I know why they keep on going on about Agile. Not sure I am yet ready to give up my fixed scope though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a fantastic summery of Agile. I am just about to engage someone to develop a new web server / mobile app. I am use to following a traditional approach but now I know why they keep on going on about Agile. Not sure I am yet ready to give up my fixed scope though.</p>
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